Matt Thurber, editor-in-chief at AIN Media Group, has been flying since 1975 and writing about aviation since 1978 and now has the best job in the world, running editorial operations for Aviation International News, Business Jet Traveler, and FutureFlight.aero. In addition to working as an A&amp;P mechanic on everything from Piper Cubs to turboprops, Matt taught flying at his father’s flight school in Plymouth, Mass., in the early 1980s, flew for an aircraft owner/pilot, and for two summer seasons hunted swordfish near the George’s Banks off the East Coast from a Piper Super Cub. An ATP certificated fixed-wing pilot and CFII and commercial helicopter pilot, Matt is type-rated in the Citation 500 and Gulfstream V/550. Based in the Pacific Northwest, Matt and his team cover the entire aviation scene including business aircraft, helicopters, avionics, safety, manufacturing, charter, fractionals, technology, air transport, advanced air mobility, defense, and other subjects of interest to AIN, BJT, and FutureFlight readers.

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Witnesses were asked about the complex airspace surrounding the Washington, D.C. area, the issue of military and civil helicopters using different frequencies, and why critical information was not presented on the Baltimore-Washington helicopter route chart during the second panel of the three-day NTSB hearing on the Jan. 29, 2025 midair collision at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (KDCA) between PAT 25, a U.S. Army Sikorsky UH-60L, and PSA Airlines CRJ700. NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy raised her voice at one point while questioning the FAA about why recommended warnings had not been added to that chart.
Army chief warrant officer and former standardization instructor David Van Vechten was asked about the advantages and disadvantages of airplane and helicopter traffic being on different frequencies.
An advantage is, Van Vechten said, “I don’t have to continuously hear all the fixed-wing traffic, which would tie up communication […]. The disadvantage was [that] it leads to somewhat of a lack of situational awareness, because I’m only hearing half of the conversation.
“So, for example, when I hear tower transmit and they say, ‘Brickyard one two three four, cleared to land Runway 19,’ I have to anticipate and wait for that fixed-wing traffic to say, ‘Roger, cleared to land runway 19,’ or else I could end up stepping on him. So as you initially enter the airspace, you have to pause for a few seconds to see if there’s anybody talking that you may not hear on a separate frequency.”
“We are split among our community,” said Rick Dressler, aviation site manager for medevac operator MedStar. “All of the civilian aircraft carry two sets of VHF radios. And in that case, you could be listening to two frequencies at the same time. So many of our members dial up the regular tower frequency on one and monitor it. And on the other, we’ll be up on the helicopter frequency. The disadvantage to that is we also have a helicopter air-to-air frequency that we can communicate and deconflict amongst ourselves, and if you take that one out of play, you have no way to talk to anyone else. I prefer the simulcast, same-frequency model because I do like to hear all of the commercial traffic at the same time, so I can formulate my plan around that. I think the disadvantage is clear. It’s a very, very, very busy airspace. And for all of us to be waiting in order to make a radio call without stepping on someone else is the disadvantage that I don’t think there’s a solution other than a split terminal.”
Clark Allen, FAA ATC specialist, said that having the separate frequencies “can help you prioritize your sequence of events or what you need to accomplish a little bit easier.” The disadvantage is that “Aircraft may step on each other utilizing two separate frequencies. You may miss an initial call or something of that nature.”
Van Vechten was asked whether the Army helicopter pilots believed that helicopter Route 4, which is the route that PAT 25 was flying, was procedurally separated from fixed-wing traffic arriving at DCA’s Runway 33 or departing from Runway 15.
“Yes, sir, I did,” he responded. “Following the incident, I contacted many of my fellow copilots that were there, and everybody had the same assumption, that we were not allowed to cross the departure and approach path of 15/33. We were always told to hold at the ‘golf balls’ [round white buildings] down by the sewage treatment plant just northeast of Wilson Bridge. Or at Hains Point, which I’d done 100% of the time when I was on Route 4 when 33 and 15 was active.”
There was an earlier discussion among controllers, according to Allen, about moving Route 4 further to the east to deconflict the helicopter traffic from Runway 33 arrivals at DCA. Asked how high this proposal went in the chain of command at the FAA, he said, “I don’t know how high it went.”
Nick Fuller, FAA acting deputy COO for the Air Traffic Organization, was asked, “Do you have any awareness from your office? Did that ever reach your level?”
“No proposal to move Route 4 ever reached my level,” he responded. “I looked back through the system service reviews and the corrective action plans developed for the facility, and there were no records of a request to move Route 4.”
During meetings of a Washington, D.C. helicopter workgroup and in a November 2022 helicopter symposium, a proposal was made to add hotspots to the Baltimore–Washington helicopter route chart. “Our attempt was to take something similar on an airport diagram, apply it to the VFR helicopter chart, and draw attention to it,” said Allen. “From my recollection, everybody was satisfied with adding an additional layer of safety to the helicopter map.”
The FAA’s Aeronautical Information Services, which is responsible for charting, implemented all of the recommendations from the workgroup except for the hotspots. “Hotspots are associated with ground or surface movement and are not within the VFR aeronautical chart specification,” according to Katie Murphy, FAA manager, visual charting. She clarified that the public is welcome to make suggestions for chart changes, and this could include a new feature such as airborne hotspots.
Next, the hearing moved on to a discussion of what the helicopter routes and zones on the Baltimore–Washington helicopter route chart require of helicopter pilots. Altitudes and lateral boundaries on the chart are recommended, according to the FAA, and are not regulatory. However, as the area is covered by Class B airspace, pilots are required to comply with ATC instructions. “Ultimately, the controller is responsible for ensuring positive control and preventing a collision,” said the FAA’s Fuller. “If that altitude was needed to ensure separation, our expectation would be that the controller would assign that altitude specifically to maintain…If they’re solely just relying on altitude, our expectation is to…maintain positive separation as required in class B airspace.”
Allen was asked, “If the helicopter routes have no lateral boundary, is there some limits to how far off the line the helicopter can go?”
“It’s an air traffic control decision,” he responded. “There’s no charted limits.”
“In this accident, they were not on the left bank. Obviously, they were coming towards the center of the Potomac there. How far over do you let them go?”
“There’s no lateral boundary,” Allen reiterated. “As Mr. Fuller stated earlier, it is a VFR chart. The altitudes are recommended. There is a key that describes the route of flight for the helicopters, but it is incumbent upon the helicopter to report locations, and air traffic control to provide the Class Bravo services. Our current helicopter working group that is active at this time is working with our users to establish lateral [boundaries] and widths to those helicopter charts, along with compulsory GPS reporting points. So yes, we didn’t in the time have those in effect. And we currently don’t at this time. But the long-term goal is to have defined widths and reporting points.”
NTSB chair Homendy asked if the FAA Aeronautical Charting Office had taken action on adding something like hotspots to the helicopter route chart. “Is there any action on that now? Is there any talk of that now to do that, since this event?”
“No, there’s not,” Murphy responded. “We have not specifically added the term ‘hotspot’ on there. But Mr. Stowe, I believe, can provide some information on what we have placed on the charts in those particular areas, around caution areas.”
Since the accident, according to Jon Stowe, FAA director, policy AJV-P, a graphic was added to the chart supplement to the VFR aeronautical chart that included caution notes and identifying high-density traffic areas. “Moving forward, I imagine there will be other caution notes and pilot callouts for the actual aeronautical chart. Post-accident, we’ve put procedures in place where the aircraft and fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters are not allowed to interact in that area. If we do have a priority medevac helicopter that needs to transit that area, we don’t allow arrivals and departures, particularly the Runway 15 or 33 at all. They’re not allowed to interact.”
Homendy pointed out that during the November 2022 symposium, three hotspots were identified, including over the Memorial Bridge during Runway 33 departures; Hains Point when aircraft are landing to the south; and Route 4 near Joint Base Anacostia-Bolling when Runway 1 and 33 are in use. “You’re not aware of these recommendations?” she asked Murphy.
“I am aware of those recommendations,” Murphy responded. “As I mentioned earlier in 2023, Aeronautical Information Services received the requests from the DCA Helicopter Working Group, and I believe that’s where those recommendations were made. Again, we implemented all of them with the exception of the addition of hotspots, due to the fact that they are not within the VFR aeronautical charting standard.”
“Did you offer an alternative?” Homendy asked.
“I have no evidence of offering the alternative at the time. However, it is our standard operating procedure to work with air traffic whenever possible to solve problems and to make the U.S. safer through charting.”
Homendy pointed out that Los Angeles International Airport (KLAX) charting has a cautionary note about intense helicopter operations one mile north of the airport. “I guess I’m curious, how does [KLAX] already have intense helicopter operations, and it’s been there for some period. And [KDCA], which is being described by everyone here as being one of the most complex helicopter systems in the United States, did not have one before this accident?
“On March 15, 2023, the working group formed a safety risk management panel focused on exactly that. These routes and zones are heavily traveled by medevac, military, law enforcement, photo missions, VIP movements, and support other special operations in conjunction with the helicopter routes and zones. There is a high volume of fixed-wing aircraft that operate in the immediate vicinity of the routes and zones. The current helicopter routes and zones have changed very little since 1999, while airlines, aircraft types, approaches, volume, complexity, crews, and many other factors have evolved, the Baltimore-Washington helicopter route structure has not. With the current route-zone structure, helicopter operations are occurring in proximity that have triggered safety events. These events have been trending in the wrong direction and increasing year over year, and then they recommended action.
“But are we really going to say, well, they didn’t do enough?
“I’m not looking for an answer right now because honestly, I don’t get it. Every sign was there that there was a safety risk, and the tower was telling you that. Yet, you know what the FAA did after the accident occurred? You transferred out the air traffic manager to general assistant general managers, and the support staff support managers, support person. I’m sorry, I don’t know the exact title, but what you did is you transferred people out instead of taking ownership over the fact that everybody in FAA in the tower was saying there was a problem. But you guys are pointing out, ‘Welp, our bureaucratic process. Somebody should have brought it up at some other symposium.’ Are you kidding me? Sixty-seven people are dead!
“How do you explain that? Our bureaucratic process? Do you know we actually added up how many steps it takes to get from the tower to headquarters to figure out? And we ran all sorts of scenarios, how many steps it takes to get a policy change, 21 steps. Fix it. Do better.”

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